The Chris Roth Interview

Well, let me just say welcome to everybody. Thank you for joining the Trudy Masterpiece podcast. My name is Craig Walker. I am the host.(...) And I'm here today with my friend Chris Roth. And Chris, this is so cool. He has the distinguished honor of being the very, very, very first person I ever coached through the Trudy Masterpiece training when it really wasn't even Trudy Masterpiece training. It was just something that God had done in my life.(...) And I was able to share part of that with him. We'll get into that. I want to tell you, you're going to hear all that story and more. And so I think this will really be helpful to everyone. And again, there's nothing scripted about this. We're not going to follow any outline or anything. It's just a good conversation that I think you're going to hear things that will be very, very helpful to you to help you on that journey that you are on yourself to win over self-doubt, to win over that feeling that you're just not enough so that you can live that life that you always wanted. But so far thought, this is just something I've only experienced in my imagination.

Transcript

Well, let me just say welcome to everybody. Thank you for joining the Trudy Masterpiece podcast. My name is Craig Walker. I am the host.(...) And I'm here today with my friend Chris Roth. And Chris, this is so cool. He has the distinguished honor of being the very, very, very first person I ever coached through the Trudy Masterpiece training when it really wasn't even Trudy Masterpiece training. It was just something that God had done in my life.(...) And I was able to share part of that with him. We'll get in that. I want to tell you, you're going to hear all that story and more. And so I think this will really be helpful to everyone. And again, there's nothing scripted about this. We're not going to follow any outline or anything. It's just a good conversation that I think you're going to hear things that will be very, very helpful to you to help you on that journey that you are on yourself to win over self-doubt, to win over that feeling that you're just not enough so that you can live that life that you always wanted. But so far thought, this is just something I've only experienced my imagination.

(...)

This whole program is designed to help you live that life for real.

(...)

You're the guy that's on here is leading this. I get to live it for real. But I didn't for like 58 years. And the guy that I'm on here with today, Chris Roth, he's getting to live that life for real. And so thanks again for joining us. Chris, we're going to jump into this today. And man, thanks for joining me.

My pleasure, man. Let's dive right in. And I'll tell you, you say the life you always dreamed of living, I really didn't believe it to be possible that I could ever live the life that I'm living now. Like having the feeling that I'm good at what I do or I'm enough or I matter. You know what I mean? And that's the crazy thing. It's fun when you talk about--(...) it's actually flattering to say that I was the first, right? Yeah. Like to think back on sitting--(...) when you were building your house in Colorado, we were sitting in your trailer.

(...)

And you literally said, you know what? I have this idea. Can I show it to you? And you wrote it down on a piece of notebook paper at the table is how you first showed me this idea that you had back then that would turn into what it is now. And it really--

(...)

like it's such a blessing that you've come up with something that you can share with people that can really--

(...)

actually change lives, like completely alter the trajectory that somebody is on and help them to believe in their self.(...) Like if you-- like if anybody other than you told me that, I don't know if I would buy into it. You know what I mean?

(...)

Like-- I hear-- Dennis. Let's do this. Let's give everyone some perspective because no one has any idea who Chris Roth is. And they're-- well, I take that back. You're famous in another part of the world, but not on my podcast yet. After today, you will be.(...) And so we'll dive into that. Give people some idea. What was it like-- what was your life like when I first met you or when we first came together?

Oh, man.

(...)

How much money did you make at the time? What kind of job did you have?

What was going on? So, all right. So I was a chef in restaurants. I had gone to culinary school.

(...)

I was--

(...)

anybody who's worked in restaurants that is listening to this will know exactly what I'm talking about when I say my life was fueled by drugs and alcohol. Right?

(...)

The--

(...)

just the feeling of extreme tiredness, the feeling of I'm never going to get out of this, juggling your bills and picking and choosing which ones to pay. Feeling like, you know what, there's nothing else I could possibly do with my life because I don't know anything else. I actually went to culinary school.

(...)

And farther back than that, I mean, we can take it farther back where, you know, growing up, my parents divorced rather early. My mom left when I was 11.

(...)

I didn't see her again for quite some time. My dad raised a single father working two jobs in Southern California to really take care of us and give us a place to rest our heads. But we didn't grow up with much. I mean, we grew up with almost nothing. We grew up in squalor. Our house was a mess.

(...)

And at that age, when you're 12, 11, 12, 13, you start having these feelings like, you know, it's my fault. My parents got divorced. So I'm not enough-- I'm not a good enough kid. And it's those feelings that start off so young that you don't realize impact you so much now, even to this day that, you know, I was looking for acceptance anywhere I could. I started hanging out with people that weren't the best influence, you know,

(...)

drinking, smoking.

(...)

Pills all started down that road. And you start hanging out with these people. And these people-- you bond with these people because they're like you. And I ended up in a position where, you know, I had my wrist in my throat cut when I was 19 at a party. I got found in a gutter not breathing, just purely on drugs and alcohol.

(...)

By the grace of God, a lady was walking her dog at like 3 in the morning and found me laying in the gutter. I would not be here.

(...)

I was a little graffiti tag banger.

(...)

You know, my life-- I left California and moved to Texas, which is probably the best thing that I ever did because that's where I met you. That's where I met Danielle.

(...)

But honestly, had I not gotten out of California, I would either be in prison or dead right now, genuinely. You

mentioned Danielle. Danielle is my daughter. And she created what we called the Lunch Bunch on Sunday.

(...) You know,

(...)

Danielle was really a catalyst in the start of my progression and change.

(...)

It actually is what inevitably led me down the path to your house, to sitting in church and listening to you preach and really like hearing messages that spoke to my life directly. You get in these situations where you're-- I was genuinely rock bottom.

(...)

I mean, for the sake of transparency,(...) Danielle and I, we used to be roommates. And I told her one day she was leaving. I had got a DUI. I was already struggling with my bills. I was going to lose my truck. I was going to lose basically everything I had. I was suicidal, man. And I looked Danielle in her face. She was heading out to work. And I said, you know what, I love you. And I'm sorry you're my best friend. But I'm sorry for what you're going to have to find when you come home or what you're going to have to clean up.

(...)

And Danielle being such a good friend that she was, she said, I'm not going into work today. I'm going to stay right here. And we had long talks. And it was, you know,

(...)

a moment when I really felt loved and cared about and had somebody on my side, which I didn't have a whole lot of. The people that I knew back home were always out for themselves. And if they could lift you up, they would. But they didn't really want to.

(...)

And so, you know, living my life like that was really rough. And then having somebody to care and being at rock bottom, like actual rock bottom when you are ready to just throw it away and you feel like you have no other options. And Danielle came to me and she said, you know,

(...)

she said, why don't you try coming to church? You know, and my dad went to church. I had gone to church with him before. I was actually confirmed to Lutheran, but I never took it serious. It was never something that I wanted to do. It was never something like, you know, I got to get up and go to church and make dad happy or whatever. But, you know, when she told me, it was like, you know, I don't I don't know how it's going to help, but I'm willing to try anything, you know.

And the story I heard is she baited you a little bit too, didn't she? With her mom's home cooking? Oh,

yes, sir. Let me tell you something. Debbie, if you're listening to this, we're going to come visit. You're going to have to cook because I need I need to trip down memory lane, if you will. You know what I'm saying? But, yeah, no, I mean, she she invited us to your house for lunch after church. And it was one of those things where it really was like, you know, I was willing to try every if if somebody came to me and said, put this stone on your forehead and it would help you. I would try it. Right. I was I was literally a rock bottom. So, you know, like I said, I went and went to church, listened to the message. I met you. I really sat down and like sat down and ate with you, you know, sat down around your table with all your family, all your you know, your kids and your wife and literally having meaningful conversations, but never feeling pressured to like, oh, do you do you believe in God? You know what I mean? It was like it was more those conversations that that spark kind of a little bit of curiosity and and it really the way that you went about it really helped me, I think, with just kind of easing my way into it and trying to really understand and trying to really make a move to to find some peace and find some harmony.

(...)

It was at my house and I remember this. I think it's important because I tell everybody I work with Christians, people who are motivated and want to win this battle. That's who I can help the most. But that time you weren't.

(...)

You but you were at my house and I asked you a question. I asked you if you were a believer and you answered. I mean, Chris, you answered like a theological answer like like you've been theological training or been at least been raised in Sunday school, even though you hadn't. You said, well, yeah, I'm a Christian. I've trusted Jesus Christ. He died for my sins and I believe that he was raised on the third day and a great answer. And most people would say, oh, well, then you're you're in, brother. Hey, welcome to the family.

(...)

And I honestly, I didn't know because the scripture says also that it's my faith that we're saved. So, you know, I want to know. I know you know those things, but do you trust him? So I asked you that question. And great. Do you do you trust him and or is it just head knowledge? That's not what I asked you, but that's that's what I was getting at. And and you said, well, you were looking at me then like, are you from Mars?

(...) I have the answer. I have the answer. What do you get?(...) I gave you the textbook answer.

Yes.

Well, do you.

Yeah. I said, do you trust him? And then you said, what do you mean?(...) And I explained there were some trust in just a little bit.

(...)

You know, I had a hard time looking at you, and I was like, great. But it's just head knowledge.

(...)

And then you went home that day and you made a decision sometime that day or the next day because you did you had a DUI. You didn't have a driver's license at the time or you didn't have insurance. I don't know the exact part of the story. And you said by faith, I'm not driving again until the lord makes it legal.

(...)

you know, to sit down and after you asked me that question, it was really like a kind of eye opener. I had been going to church for a little bit. And you asked me that question and it really hit home and it made me think like, what does it mean to trust God, right? And like, what does it mean to really rely on him? And sure, I had the you know, the textbook answer that I heard 100 times because you know, my dad went to church and I went and got confirmed but but never really dug into it, never really thought about it, never really made God a part of my life. And you know, I've been reading scripture a little bit but it was one of those moments where it was like, okay, I see you, we're gonna try this thing out, right? I didn't have insurance on my truck. I didn't have a driver's license. I wasn't even supposed to be driving.

(...)

Because I had a DUI, I was on probation. So where I worked and where I lived was not very far away.(...) But it was a highly patrolled street. And so,(...) you know, I said, all right, I walked outside and I'm getting ready to go to work like any other day and just you know, the little rule breaker that I am.(...) I was like, all right, we're gonna get to work. Well, I got outside and my tire was flat on my truck, flat flat, I'm talking rim on the ground flat. I'm talking, I'm talking somebody had to have shipped my tire or something, you know what I mean? And so I said, all right, well, I got to get to work. I was already on thin ice with my job. I couldn't afford to lose my job because all the money that the DUI was costing me my rent, everything. And I just I said, All right, God, like I see like, here's here's you want me to have faith in you and I want to have faith in you. But you got to show me something first, you know. And I said, so I said, God, if you could get air in this tire and keep air in this tire and give me to work and get me home without getting me pulled over and without me losing my job, I will wrap my truck up. I will not drive it against illegal. Right. And I meant that with every every fiber of my being like show me something like this is an opportunity to bring me around. And and so, you know, I there was a gas station across the street from the house and I limped my truck over there and I threw air in that tire and I sat there for a second. I only had a few minutes to wait because if not, I was going to be late. So I sat there a second. I said, All right, well, if it's going to deflate on the way to work, at least I'll get there and we'll be fine. So I drive to work. I pass the police station. I pass plenty of officers on the way to work and I get there. I'm on time. I got two minutes to spare. I clock in. I do my shift. I'm not thinking anything of it other than, hey, I'm going to need a ride home at some point. Right. So I do my shift my eight, nine hours, whatever, 10 hours, whatever. It was something crazy. I leave and I go out to my truck just to be like, all right, well, what are we going to have to do here? We're going to have to call somebody and I look and there's still air in my tire.(...) And I'm like, well, that that's interesting. Right. You know, and so I hop in my truck and I drive myself home slow and steady, you know, like a listening every time you hear you hear something, you're like in my tire flat, you know, and I get home and there was air in my tire when I got home and I said, well, it's hard to argue with that. You know what I mean? So I wrapped her up. I put her in the driveway. I threw cover over and I didn't touch her again until, you know, I had my license. I had my registration and I was allowed to drive legally.(...) And I'll tell you what, man, the craziest part about that was the tire was flat on the rim. There was no reason. It's not like the truck had sat there for years. You know what I mean? This is like an overnight flat tire. I drove that thing to work. I drove it home and that air had that that tire had air in it until I got rid of that truck. I never had another flat tire in that truck. And to me, that was kind of one of those those small things that it moves me now, you know, it gives me a little bit of does me too about it.(...) And so, you know, it's one of those things where it's like, okay, I see you and now now now is the part right. So this is the part that got that was that was hard for me, right? It was I made this deal. And I said show me and he he basically threw it back at me and say you show me, you know what I mean? And it was like, well, challenge accepted, you know, and that was the beginning, man. That was that was the absolute beginning of what I wouldn't say it was the only beginning. Right. Yeah, but it was definitely a good start. Yeah.

Yeah. I can say this, that it wasn't again, I would I found out just a little bit while after that, that you had made this decision.(...) And then you told me, hey, that wasn't as hard as I thought it was going to be. You saw God show up and provided you a ride to and from work every day.

(...)

So that you didn't have to miss work and you didn't have to drive your truck illegally took care of that, too. And so God started showing up in your life as you begin to trust in him. And then you start trusting him in other areas. It wasn't long. I just could see, oh, something's happened in Chris's life. He's a different person. He's he's not the same guy. He's like, okay, I'm going to use the religious word here. He's born again. There's a change. I'll take it. Yeah. Yeah. So you did you you were you trusted Christ genuinely. I watched you get baptized. I watched you get involved in ministry. And I'm kind of fast forwarding here for the sake of time because you really began to do everything right. I mean, textbook right. And you got involved in ministry. You connected with a small group of other believers. You're getting into God's word yourself. Just really good things are happening and you're growing and so and then I retire and move away. We lost this coaching ministry went to Colorado. Your small group started to disband and and now it's getting rocky. And this is one of the best parts that I want people to hear is because sometimes we think, oh, well, we get it figured out. Then we got it figured out forever. There's never a problem again. That wasn't the case. You experienced some really hard times after that.

(...)

And we're going to transition and kind of tell a few of those stories because I moved to Colorado and you came up to visit us and you kind of alluded that ball ago. And as I was starting to build my house, you came to help out and she had a question. You had something that was on your heart.

(...)

Nothing was wrong here. Everything was still good. At this point, you're still in your small group and everything's going great.

(...)

So you show up in my house and you have this question you asked me. You remember what it was you asked me or told me you wanted to do. You had this vision.

I did. I was trying to figure out to get I quit cooking because I knew that was not the path for me. God, it was just one of those things where and I even came to your office when I quit cooking before you left. But it was it was one of these things where I got to do something with my life and I got to do something that that's worth it that will help me get out of the situation. I'm in so I don't repeat history. And I found this coding school and they offered this program that you don't pay anything unless you get a job in the industry making 50K or more. Then you give them a percentage. And I said, well, this is too good to be true.(...) And and I had asked my family about it. And then when I came out to you, I said, what do you think about this, Craig? Do you think this is a bad idea?(...) And and it was it was one of these conversations. I don't remember. I've had a lot of head injuries, but it's one of those things where I asked you, like, what do you think about this? And and it was we had a conversation. I can't remember how the conversation came up. But but you said, well, what happens if if it gets too hard or something like that?

Yeah, I can feel it. I can feel that part in.

Yeah.

Yeah. And you told me your vision, what you wanted to do. And then you told me also, but I was excited for you. I thought you had a good plan, a good vision. God's leading you.(...) And then you said, but and then you filled in the but the but was, but Craig, I can't I can't do this. I'm afraid I will fail. I'm afraid if I do this, I will just quit because I never finish anything. I start. I always quit. That's what you told me. And you were scared to death of failing of getting this this path and starting down it and then doing what you've always done, just quitting and going back to what you've always done.

(...)

And that's that's when we had our that's when we had our conversation. But at that point, you probably not ever really made over minimum wage had you cooking.

I worked in the Gulf of Mexico, which was a lot of money, which was bad at the time.

(...)

But it was short lived. Right. So you get a taste of that. And you're like, I can do something with my life and give you a little bit of hope. But it was like, where else am I going to get a job like that? The oil and gas industry tanked and I'm back working in restaurants where I have to wear two jobs to scrape by to juggle bills.

(...) So then you took on this. You actually we sit down and I walked you through the method.(...) The method is is is just kind of a one part of a four part series. But that's all I had at the time that I thought. And so I walked you through the method and you said, I've got it. You took it and you ran with it. You went to school. You graduated. You graduated. Well, you come out of school and you got a job. And I must go ahead.

So I want to say I want to say one more thing here, though, is is there was that conversation and I was so fired up to hear about it. And you explaining it. But you also asked me another question.(...) And you said you asked me again, it was more along the lines of do you trust God, but it wasn't about do you trust God.

(...)

It was do you I said I we got to talk and I was like, I believe I can do it. But you know, I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me. Right. That was that was the quote. That was the thing that was hanging on in my head. And and I said, But if it gets hard and I feel like if God closes the door, then then what do I do? And you said one thing to me that that has always stayed with me that always it's it's drilled into my heart. It's drilled into my brain. I tell my kids in my youth group all the time. And I say, I say, you said, what does that mean that you can trust God, that you can do all things for God who strengthens you? And I said, Well, I mean, I believe I can do anything. And you said this to me, you said, what happens when that door closes? And I said, well, that's God not telling me, you know, telling me that's that's not the place I go. He said, Well, if you believe you can do all things through Christ who gives you strength, why wouldn't you God kick that door down? That changed my life so much. And I said, Well, if if if that's the case, let's go. It gave me so much fire at that time. And it gave me so much hope to take into battle, right? Battle is what it has been for a very most of my life has been a war, man. Sure. And so it is for all of us.

You know, sometimes it's more than others. And if you look around, compare, which is not a good thing to do, every single one of us have to struggle. Jesus said in this life, if you're mine, you will have hard times.

(...) Yep. And that's I mean, that's what it was. So so that got me there. And I you know, I dug in I did the work, I worked full time, I went to school full time. And here's the crazy part, you know, it got hard. And there were times where I thought that door was closed, and I wanted to quit. But I believed in God. And I knew God was pushing me in a direction where I could do better. And it was a matter of like, do I put my faith in him and stick with it and know that I'm going to come out on the other side? Or do I say, Okay, God, this is not the one again. And he's probably out there like, man, I gave me the opportunity, why do you keep running, you know? So, but it was great. I actually, I became a software engineer, I went to school for 18 months. And then, you know, a lot of people here, here's the crazy part is that a lot of people struggle to get a job in the industry. Once you get out of school, getting your foot in the door is tough. And I remember I was I was working on an app, waiting to get a haircut. And I had these dudes come talk to me about, you know, what are you working on? And I was so excited to share what I was working on, because I have no friends in tech, you know, I grew up with a bunch of drunks, you know, so nobody's like, here's a here's a program. And so it was like, I was so excited to talk to them about it. And I showed them what I was working on, they were very impressed. And they basically, you know, offered me a job on the spot. And I wasn't even done with school, I still had a couple months left. But I got out of school. And, you know, I went straight into making, you know, 7070 plus a year, which for me, I had never even thought I could make that kind of money, you know, even in the Gulf, I was like, probably close, but I was also blowing it on alcohol every time I got off the boat, you know what I mean? So I never had that kind of money.

(...)

And it changed my mind, man. It made me see like, you know, I like, God, you're here with me, like, I've seen these little things that you've done for me. And how can I, how, how can I discount that? How can I discredit that, you know? And so that was the start, man. And I just kept pushing. But, you know, that that job came and went. And then I got into another job where I was making even more money. And I started, you know, I started my small group had disbanded this time. And then, you know,

(...)

I wasn't going to churches regularly.

(...)

I wasn't reading the Bible as regularly. And I got to a point where it was, it was like, Look, what I've done, look what I've done for myself, you know, I've got myself here.(...) We had a conversation, you know, Saul was was faithful follower until he was lost directing statues of himself. And that's how I felt I was, I was, I was over here like, Hey, man, look, look at what I've done, look what I've built, you know, and then, man,

(...)

y'all got away humbling you real quick sometimes.

Yeah.

Because, you know, I had a girlfriend who's now my wife.

(...)

And we were we were doing okay. And I was doing fine. And, you know, I was making all this money. And then all of a sudden, you know, they pull the rug out from under me. And what happened was I had started dealing with a lot of depression,

(...)

not just in the tech industry, but a lot of industries deal with a thing called imposter syndrome.(...) And for me, like, for me, somebody who didn't go to an Ivy League or go to a four year and get a bachelor's degree, I'm always comparing myself to others in that instance, right, especially when I'm down on myself, and I'm feeling like, Oh, they're gonna figure me out, I shouldn't be making this kind of money, I shouldn't be doing this job, like, I don't belong here, I don't deserve to be here. And, and like, really get stuck into that mindset. And then really, you know, start start declining mentally with with like, mental health is a real concern, especially when when you're dealing with imposter syndrome, I felt like it wasn't enough. And I lost it tanked my productivity, my productivity, if you're not producing, what are you doing, you're just eating company dime, and they don't have room for that. So, so they ended up letting me go.

(...)

And that was that was that was the start of a really, really rough battle, you know, it I just I felt hopeless, like I was, my wife was upset because I wasn't working, but I also wasn't helping around the house because my depression was there. And so, you know, I

don't think we're at this time, were you gonna applying for another job?

Um, right at the beginning, no, they gave me a severance. So I hadn't been applying. And I was like, because for sure, I'm, I'm gonna get a job super quick. I got my first two jobs without even trying, you know.(...) And it like I said, he's got a way of humbling you I, I didn't apply for the first like month or two, I was I was going through some, some mental health therapies. And(...) yeah, but but when I started applying, it was even worse, right? Because now I'm applying to jobs in a field I'm good at, and getting rejected, when I say rejected, I don't mean like one or two people were like, Hey, you know, let's let's talk to him. Okay, no, it was like I was putting out hundreds and hundreds of resumes a month. And I was not even getting calls back, I was getting rejection letters on a daily basis. So when you already feel like you're not good enough, and you're constantly rejected by hundreds of people, hundreds of companies, it makes you feel even worse, you know, and that depression sets in even deeper.

(...) Yeah.

That's that's where I was when

this had been months, like how many months before I get called and and say, Hey, so let's see,

(...)

probably probably eight months, eight months.

Okay. And then somewhere in there,

(...)

Danny, Danielle, my daughter called me again said, Hey, dad,

(...)

I think Chris needs to talk with you. And so are you need to talk with him. And so I called you. I remember that call. And, and you just kind of filled me in on where you were, broke my heart.

(...)

And I also knew what you what I gave you in the in the beginning was I helped you trust Christ. I knew you'd been born again. I knew you had the spirit of God living in you. I knew you had the method.(...) But there were some things that that I that I also knew that weren't a part of the original thing that I taught you. And now it's become a 12 week course and culturally a masterpiece. And I invited you. I said, Chris, would you like to go through the whole thing? Would you like to get grounded in the Christian life?

(...)

And, and you just kind of jumped towards the telephone.

No hesitation. Yeah.

(...)

I beg, I beg at that point. Like, yeah.

Yeah. We started at the very bottom. We didn't skip anything. We went back through the method again,

(...)

dealt with the foundation in the beginning, walked through the method, talk about the champion's mindset and in the essential habits. And we covered all four of those things and you, you drank it in and sponge man. I took it all. I, the imposter syndrome was dead. You dealt with that and you won that battle. No more sense of I'm not enough.

(...)

Now then this is something that's going to really, I think there are a lot of people in this condition and this situation you, you win your battle, you get your life turned around again. Now you're back in church. You're, you're leading a small group. You're attending church. God's investing in you. God's growing you just leaps and bounds and building you on the inside out.(...) And, and you and I both thought, okay, probably next week God's going to give him a job better than the one he ever had. And because God works all things together for good. And I was so excited for you and I was praying with you daily and, and another day and another day and another day.(...) And it ended up,

(...)

well, I won't tell the end of the story just yet.

(...)

But you went through something

(...)

that, well, gosh, a lot of people do.(...) God didn't give you that job right away.

No. And I truly believe that. I thought, you know what, we're back in it. We're back in the church. We're working with the youth again. We're here. We're, we're doing the steps. We're doing the work. Like we're, we're strong. We're on fire again. Like it's, I'm gonna have a job any minute. Right. And it did not come for, for awhile. You know, it got to a point where I'm just, I'm, I'm like exhausting all avenues again. You know, I, I reached out to my wife and I'm like, Hey, babe, you know,

(...)

would you do me a favor? Would you just pray for me? Would you have a conversation with God and just say, Hey, you know, like help him, you know, and she came back and she'd say, yeah, I'll do that for you. And I was so, I was so grateful.

(...)

It felt like, you know, not, not, it never got to the point again though, where I just felt like hope was not there. Like it was not coming. There was this constant, this, this constant hope. I can't say that I knew when, but it just knew that it was coming and I remained faithful. I remained headstrong and stay, staying in the game and continue putting out applications. And, you know,

And you even got a second job. You had two jobs you were working in just to try to pay the bills.

I was, I was minimum wage kind of jobs. I was waiting tables at a movie theater. I went from being a software engineer to waiting tables in a movie theater. Right. And that was, that was tough. You know, I was also working on an application to, to try to sell to the movie theater. Right. Like that was my goal. I ended up getting, we won't go into that. But, um, so, so next, next thing, you know, you know, I'm, I'm, I'm still faithful. I'm still filling out applications, still getting rejections. And then all of a sudden, how many months, how many months, four months, I was 10 months total.

And we're 10 months without a job. What do you do when, when you know, you're doing what God wants you to do and God still doesn't show up. How do you keep being faithful? 10 months, Chris, that's a long time.

How did you not give up?(...) There was a time there in the middle when, but before we got in contact where, where I was still struggling and I was, I was questioning and I was like, God, where are you? You know, I've seen you so many times in my life, where are you? And it's, it's that constant feeling of like, I know you're there. I was listening to, um,(...) uh,(...) a sermon. I can't remember the gentleman's name. I wish I could, um, pastor James, he, he was, he preached at a lake point, but, um, he said when he, he was talking about God's plan versus our plan. He said, when you look at Noah, was he an architect? Was he a zoologist? Was he a meteorologist? Did he know the rain was coming? Did he know he was going to build an art? And, uh, the answer is no, but when God called him, he stepped up because he knew something had to be done. And so it's just the faith that he knew that God would take care of him even in this crazy circumstance. And so it's, it's one of those things where, dude, I've been through so much worse. And even though it feels so bad, it feels horrible. Like I was worried me and my wife were going to split because of financial struggles, um, that, you know, things would just get even worse and even worse. But, you know, I just said, you know what, God, I know you're here with me. I prayed every day. I just poured out every chance I got. And I stay faithful because I know I've seen, I've seen the things he can do in my life to, to tell me how, how can I not remain faithful when I saw a tire flat on its rim and then stay full until I sold that truck? Like I've seen God do crazy, crazy miraculous things in my life.

(...)

So when I look at it and I'll say, you know what, how big is the situation? Not, not the stuff that's happening with it, but what can happen if the situation changes on an instant? Right. And sure enough, man, that's exactly what happened. I had put it out application after application, resume after resume. And I got an email, I went through checking, you know, I was doing the daily, uh, pity party where I go through my email and I see all my rejection letters and I saw one, that was like, Hey, we saw your resume. Like we, we'd like to, uh, to, to talk more with you. If you'll, you know,(...) would you be interested in meeting with us? And I was like,(...) I guess, man, you know, like, like I've seen as another recruiter just coming to me to tell me how I'm not going to get this job. So I was like, all right. And I had another recruiter hit me up and say, Hey, uh, we saw your profile or whatever. And we thought you'd be a good fit. You might submit your resume. And I'm like, man, what a waste of time. But at this point, like I got nothing to lose, you know, so I put my resumes in and, um, man, the turnaround time on that was, was crazy. They, they came back to me. Uh, I had an interview the next week with both companies. Um, I had another interview with one of the companies. I had another interview. It was like this, this two weeks span of just like these quick back to back interviews and in tech that is they're not fast, you know, there's, there's weeks in between because they're not in a rush to hire anybody.(...) Um, but these, these companies came back back and, um, I remember meeting with a final interview at this one company and the company I'm at now, actually, they, they interviewed me and I told them, you know, it was a company I wanted to work for. And, and I told them, look, Hey, you know, I just had a final interview and, um, I think they're going to make me an offer, but I would like to hear from you in the chance that, uh, to give you an opportunity to, to swoop in before. And I had two offers in basically two weeks back to back on jobs that I didn't even try to apply for. They, they, they, they, they seek me out, you know,

(...) and now I've seen God do that, um, to where I've been in a, a time where he's teaching me, he's growing me and, and literally there's nothing I can do to pry the bars of heaven open to get God to do anything. There's like welded shut and nothing's going on. I've learned during those times, God is not being silent.(...) Um, he's being proactively quiet.

(...)

Um, he's, uh, he's just watching me and he's helping me. His spirits prompt me. He's growing me. I'm learning to trust him more and more. And then there comes that point where, okay, I'm ready to answer. And when he answers, he answers so big in such a way that, that you just think that was God. I mean, like there's no job offers and now there's two, uh, for me, this house has been on the market. I can't get rid of it. We're going to lose everything. If, if God didn't show up and he sends other people to make our payment for us. And then after six months, he sends two offers within like five minutes of each other and they're competing with each other for my house. And I said, Oh my gosh, it's just the God, but it's like, he wants me to grow up. And if I will trust him through the hard times and not give up,(...) then, then he just shows up in a big way. That's what you experienced. And I've experienced that many others have experienced that

it's, it's this, those, it's not just that. Cause, cause that happens and you, you win that victory, right? You, you take that victory and you, you, you know, praise God and you keep moving. And then you realize sometimes that what it appears to be, it's not exactly what you thought it would be, right? Or what, what, what it actually is, what it appears to be is not what it actually is. And this job has been a struggle. Like it's been a lot of work, but what I find interesting is that my last job, I was not doing as much. I was not required to do as much. They didn't expect that much from me. And I had a hard time believing in myself, right? And now this company is giving me a lot of responsibility. They have given me a lot of leeway to prove myself and I haven't shied away from it, right? Like I haven't been afraid that I'm going to fail. It's it's what it always has been. Yeah.

Would it always, by God's grace,(...) I can do this by the grace of God,

by the grace of God. And it always has been a struggle for me where it's, it's, I don't want to step up because if I fail, then everybody's going to know I failed and I'm going to fail myself. But this time there's not even a doubt of failure in my mind. And that's the crazy part. It's where, you know what? Yes. Give me more. Let me show you more that I can do and prove that I am worth everything that I am, that I am a child of God, that I am loved, that I am great at what I do because I believe I'm great.

(...) Chris, this has been an awesome interview. I've enjoyed having you listening to you talking about this. I've got to see it firsthand and I wanted everyone else to hear it. And I know we've only hit the top and the surface level, but it's still been rich.

(...)

As we close today, just before we go, is there any parting word that you would say to a listener today? You know someone's out there, they're struggling.(...) Maybe they were like you. They weren't even a believer. Maybe they've taken a step and they saw God show up and then they've turned their back on him as you did.

(...)

And now they're in a position, they're just ready again. What would you say to that person that's out there? Maybe even to that person, I know I'm asking you a ton, even that person that said, "But I'm doing everything God wants. I trust him and he's still not showing up." Speak to that person and

that's besides a shameless plug for your program.

(...)

No, definitely work with Craig on this. But I think I honestly would tell them, don't ever give up because victory is just over the hill and you're always closer than you think you are. And it will always come because God is faithful and God loves us. When you get to a point where plenty of times you turn away and you feel like, "How could God still love me?" I've done all these things that are so bad and how could he ever forgive that? But

(...)

you got to understand that God didn't seek out the good Christians. He sought after... Ooh, that makes me emotional.

(...)

He sought after the ones that were struggling, the ones that had the troubles, the ones that were going through the battles and going through the wars. Those are the people he wants to help. And those are us.

(...)

The people that are listening to this, if you are in that situation, if you feel like you've got nothing,

(...)

you have always got God and God is always for you. He always loves you and you are exactly the way you were meant to be to Him.(...) You are perfect to Him.(...) And dive in, show God a sliver of love and test it and see where it gets you.

(...)

He is faithful and he will come through. It may be rougher than you think, but he will be there for you. And you just remain strong, headstrong because it's coming. Your time is coming and your time will be sooner than you think.

(...) That's a great word, Chris. Hey, I would like to close this in a time of prayer for anybody that's listening at God, but just take and encourage their heart and draw them close to Him through faith.(...) That's right. Father in heaven, Chris and I joined together and we pray for every listener today that you would draw them close to you. I pray that you'd give them an eye-opening experience. They would see you in a way they've never seen you before. And they would have a hunger to trust you in a way they've never trusted you before.(...) And Father, that you would show up in their life in a way they've never seen before. And they would have enough faith to trust you again tomorrow and the next day and more and more. That one day you would help them win over the imposter syndrome and to understand that they are your masterpiece. You have created them anew in Christ Jesus because they trust you in order that they can do every good thing that you had in mind when you made them. And that's a lot of good things. Thank you, Father, in the name of Jesus for loving us and drawing us to yourself. We pray it in His name. Amen. Amen.

(...)